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I think we have almost done this to death except for the "Thumper" thread.
Throughout this entire thread I've been wondering: If we can record the names that different bobbins were traditionally called, and the same bobbin was called two different things depending on who was doing the talking, why must we name and categorize bobbins into strict groups?
Historically it looks as though we will have to accept that they can be called by either name until we get some new research done. Meanwhile here are a few alternatives that have emerged should our lace community wish to accept some modern conventions to help sort out the confusion.
Cow and Calf Alternatives.
1. A difference between the Thumper and the East Midlands terminology. I.e. The thumper is the Jack in the Box. ( we await more feed back on this). I have a Jack in the Box that was labeled as such before the turn of the century, but lo and behold, it's a spangled east midlands.
2. Cow IN calf equals fixed babe; cow AND calf equals loose babe. I think this difference is merely due to modern spelling conventions. One lacer in 1800 may have said Cow n Calf and be construed to say BOTH Cow AND Calf & Cow IN Calf. Depending on who heard the speaker, and who wrote it down.
3. If the part that opens is the top part it is a Jack in the Box; if it opens from the tail it is a cow and/in calf. My Jack in the Box, opens on the bottom, the "jack" springs out.
None of the above, except (perhaps) for the first alternative, have much chance of being confirmed historically. I'd like to put forth the idea that we, as people removed from the tradition, cannot FORCE different bobbins to be known by the names we decide to call them. We can have loose rules, for example - babes that are inside the bobbin with no window can be called Jack in the Box, Cow & Calf or Cow in Calf. There will always be questions, might it not be better to acknowledge these differences than to discard them? For example "Natalie has a nice Cow and Calf bobbin. (These special bobbins are sometimes known as a Cow in calf or Jack in the Box.)"
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History, especially the history of handcrafts, is based on oral history and a physical record of the extant articles. There is no way to classify them as rigidly as, say, dinosaur bones. Happily for scientists, there are no dinosaurs around to say, "No that's not a pteradactyl, it's flibberjibbet." We in the lace community are lucky enough to have lacers who learned from older lace makers, by example and were briefed, orally, on the names of bobbins. Who's to say they are wrong? Can't we be accommodating enough to embrace all the names of bobbins types?
Laurie Hughes
Massachusetts
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What a sensible letter you wrote. I can not but agree with your sentiments. Deep down I have always felt pessimistic about finding the truth, certainly without research; but the net offers an opportunity to tap into a lot of knowledge and there just might have been an answer out there.
I must say that your bobbin interests me, labelled and named before 1900. Would you know who and or where it was labeled?
My interest in the names of bobbins comes from my attempts to devise a cataloguing system for collections of bobbins. It was only when I got down to doing this that I realised that there was such confusion in the names of bobbins. When we have got over this little foray I will raise the church window problem with Arachne. But I am feeling that you guys need a rest from me.
Having said that, there may well be more constructive comments such as you have made that people want to make on the current subject and if they do, I will be most pleased.
Incidentally, it is the matter of the importance of oral history that makes Wrights book so valuable and one which I am always ready to give the benefit of the doubt to.
Brian
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When replying to a member re: pewter. I was reminded that my antique bobbin collection is really weird. I comprises mostly of broken and repaired bobbins, I bought them because they teach me how the old timers made them and repaired them. My most interesting bobbin so far is one that has an old fashioned cloth shirt button stuck on the head with sealing wax as a repair.
Will you let me know of any repair techniques that you may have in your antique collections please? ( Exclude the cricket bat splice unless it is really different.)
Brian
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I am de-lurking as I need to share my excitement with someone before I burst! Yesterday a dear friend I had not seen for some time came round for coffee and a chat. She lost her Mother and Sister in a tragic accident last year and among her Mother's effects were some lace bobbins which had belonged to an aunt. When I opened the box, it was a veritable treasure chest containing approx.20 bone bobbins and countless wooden bobbins, some over a 100 years old. I could hardly believe my eyes. The feel of them was wonderful. Anyway to cut a long story short, my friend wanted me to have them all. The box also contained some Bedfordshire prickings on parchment, plus some samples of lace. Evidently her aunt had won prizes for her lace in about 1937. My friend has another box of lace made by the aunt at home, which she will bring to show me another time. Needless to say nothing got done for the rest of the day as I couldn't stop myself from handling them. I'm still getting over the shock. I can't wait to find my sheep's wool, clean them and get them on my pillow.
Jennifer.
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Hi Brian,
I was told that the reason Midlands bobbins became spangled, was when machine made cotton thread first started to replace the hand spun linen thread. Spangles were added to overcome the problem of them twisting and unplying the thread, as it wasn't of the same quality. BTW I was
also told that originally linen thread was hand made in dark and very damp cellars, in order for the staples of the thread to lay correctly to produce the "best" quality. Ah! well we will "never" know for sure. But I do believe it was a gradual process and that lace makers, rather than bobbin turners implemented the change. As I have "dictated" to Bob, my DH, just "what" I require in a nice bobbin :-)) In any case, lets face it - it's much nicer to have "pretties" on me pillow.
Love, light & peace,
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Also, the smoothest linen thread is spun damp (called wet spun). Flax is rather hairy and by spinning it damp, it sort of "glues" those hairy ends down where they can be spun in. It's also harder to get the really fine linen thread because no one is producing the flax fine enough. The really fine flax fibers come off the plant when it is young. As it grows and ages, the fiber thickens. No one wants to go to the bother. One production run is easier and more cost effective. Plus, growing and processing the finer flax was trickier to handle. Flax production is really an art. It really takes skill to judge the retting process (the flax is cut to the ground and
the outer shell is allowed to rot ("ret") away. You can ruin a entire harvest by allowing retting to continue to long. The flax fiber itself will gradually weaken. I wonder if there is anyone out there who can still produce the fine line flax. I once heard that the finest flax was also spun in caves, because the conditions were perfect for spinning.
One last tidbit: flax is the plant and the fiber, once it passes through the hands (and twist added to it), it becomes linen.
Carla Bowlin
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On the other hand, I think that midlands bobbins, with their spangles, are more beautiful and fun to collect. They also are easier to secure for storage, or to move some of them out of the way when working on wider pieces, by just sliding the spangles over a knit stitch holder. These bobbins don't roll so I don't have the occasional problem of untwisted threads, as I do with the continentals. I've been learning Bucks point lace recently, and I've been using midlands for these
projects, if for no other reason than to get use out of the fancy bobbins I've bought, and for "purism".
That said, my most favorite bobbins are the square continentals, which, in my opinion, combine the ease of use of continentals with the non-rolling nature of midlands. They also can be very beautiful to collect, since the flat surfaces lend themselves readily to being painted!
Kathy Draves,
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When I started some month ago, I didn't even know about different styles of bobbins... but learnt fast, from the list, from different books. Most of them are just beautyfull. And as I hardly can avoid buying bokks, lace books (they cry for me - I have to take them) it comes out that I need some more kinds of pillow and bobbins.
(Yes, first time I have two different projects on two pillows at the same time - I reached the next level of addiction. Those of you, who are alredy in: which level is this, and how many has this game?? )
First, there are practical differences, like in sewing. Or wether they roll or not. I like my bobbins to roll one under another while crossing (especially in making leaves!) or put a pair away to reach for the next one. But I used a flat multiblock pillow. On my new non-flat cookie, they roll too - whether I asked them to do so or not.
I can imagine the advantage of square bobbins or spangled midlands, they stay where they have been put (don't they, you experienced midland lacers?)
Second: they must fit to your hands. My first dozen pairs of bobbins where very simple swiss type continentals, 9.5cm. Neck about half of the length of the bobbin. Not bad, if you work with
thicker threads and need some yards. But I found out, that they don't fit my (not so tiny) hands well, or I don't fit those bobbins: I allways touch the wound thread while working. I still like working with them, with thicker and coloured threads, and learned to be careful. One day I will paint them to make them unique.
Now I purchased a lot of (used, not new) Duchesse type continentals. Brown wood, polished, with a wonderful smooth surface. It's a joy to touch them, With those bobbins, I even like winding the thread on! I like the touch of the pure wood. They too have 9.5cm length, but divided in 1/3 for the thread and 2/3 for my hands. Due to that and to ther shape they fit perfectly. And they are experienced bobbins, very helpful for a novice. Think I will have to buy some more of them..
Third, perhaps first: you should like them. Material, colour, shape, touch, sound, their history...
and I bet, your first kind of bobbins will not stay the only one..
Eva from Haltern, Germany
Sue Hanson SE London UK
Hi Sue,
When cotton came upon the scene, lacemakers weren't used to handling it, I presume. They weren't accostomed to having to keep the spin on the thread. Long line flax thread is of course, very fine, but the fiber itself can range from 10- 25 inches long. When it is spun up- all those twists in the yarn hold that very long fiber securely, very well. Cotton can be only 1/4"- 1" long. When the thread begins to untwist through "throwing" the bobbins certain ways, it doesn't take much untwisting for the thread to drift apart or break. I am sure it took some time for lacemakers to become accustomed to this. I watch my thread very carefully to maintain the twist
in the thread. I roll my bobbins to the right for cotton thread and to the left for linen. Btw, most cotton thread is spun S-twist, plied Z and linen thread is spun Z-twist, plied S. Most fibers are spun to the right (clockwise, including cottons). The exception is linen, I was told because the plant itself tends to grow skewed to the left (or counterclockwise). This is to take advantage of its natural twist.
Hi, Kathleen, welcome to the list and lacemaking! I use both midlands and continental bobbins (although not on the same project, excepting very unusual circumstances!) and I like them for different reasons. I suspect that most lace makers prefer the bobbin style that they used when first learning to make lace. I first learned with continentals, and prefer them for ease of use. I find that I can work faster using these, that they're easier to grasp and pick up. The disadvantage is that I have a tendency to push my bobbins across the pillow, which makes them roll, and makes some of my threads untwist. Also, patterns with sewings or leaves (which I "weave" rather than cross'n'twist) are much easier to handle with these blunt-ended bobbins.
Dear Kathleen,